Transcript of Captioning for Zoom Accessibility Webinar hosted by EASI


Okay so I think it's about time to think about starting. This is Norm Coombs from EASI equal access to software and information. I'm glad to have everybody here. We plan to report this and onto the home  page by early next week which is At the top of the homepage I should have a link to the recording. So we have some other webinars coming up on 16 October I'm going to try to do one on narrator. On some problems I need to work out, but at the end of the month we have one from [inaudible] in Toronto about raising the floor. I'm excited about some commercial companies are trying to build more accessibility into their products. So for example in office there are a lot of places where a teacher can be prompted to do something accessible instead of having to know it. For some reason [inaudible] trying to make the Internet more friendly so everybody will do things more excessively. And the one that's going to excite people is that on 1 November we are doing one on chrome book. So that should get a lot of excitement.

 I want to thank everybody. We've been doing Webinars for more than 20 years. Somewhere in the middle of the 90s. And this is our first one with Zoom. That are still in the process of learning Zoom and how it works, so to tell you the truth we are is interested in listening to the presenters today as I know you will be and I want to thank everybody for being here and look forward to having you at a future webinar. So with that I will turn it over to Hadi. He can introduce  his friends and the panelist will be in charge of the rest of the recording.

   That's great, thank you very much everyone for coming to this meeting. We will be talking about Zoom and Zoom accessibility today. I am here with my colleagues, jason. I will let them introduce themselves, Jason?

   Hi everybody. I'm Jason Smith. I am the Zoom service manager here at the University of Washington in the Provost office.

   Thank you, Jason and pass to Ken and Andy?

   I am Andy D’Artola and I'm one of the project managers at Zoom and then we also have Ken who is one of the lead engineers who has helped drive the accessibility initiatives here at Zoom,

   Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Let me talk about a few logistics. The current setting of the Zoom that you have is webinar mode. In this mode you won't have access to all the fancy features of standard, regular Zoom. At the later time when we get to the demo session we will be sharing our screen and you can see and hear all those functions. Or as I say, some of them. You are muted, but however you can use the chat to send a chat to us. We will have voice of chat I think at some stage... 30 minutes past the hour we will check with the voice of chat who is Beth today and tell us the important questions or things that we need to really address immediately otherwise you know you can wait until the QA session and then ask all your questions about Zoom and Zoom accessibility.

When we get to the QA question if you are using Mac you can use command shift a to mute and unmute your microphone when you are in the room and if you are using Windows it is alt A to toggle the microphone.

The session as Beth mention or norm mentioned that it is being recorded and it's also being captioned.

So, first we will have a background to how we got to this point. Then we'll talk a little bit about our collaboration with Zoom. And the progress that we made over the past two years, as far as accessibility goes and then Andy and Ken will drive and show you the general features of Zoom. Later Jason and I will take over and demo some of those accessibility features and at the end we will have QA session that you will have a chance to  ask questions.

So little background about Zoom collaboration, several, couple years ago, I think it's a little over two years ago University of Washington, we were using a different audio video conferencing system that we were not happy with and we were thinking to replace it with a better one. Or with a different one that would work better. At the same time, Washington k-20 education network was also looking for a similar situation and they together looked into a few options and narrow down the selection and once they picked, they made their choice, Zoom was the winter and at the beginning we had a kind of pilot project. I think Jason can talk about that because Jason is the service manager for Zoom, and can tell you all about it. But once we were, during the pilot phase then we were connected with Zoom and then we discussed, we made  our evaluation which was not really promising at all in the beginning. Then my colleague and I looked into that and we were very skeptical if we could ever get this application to a point that we could use it... you know, that it could be used by users with disabilities.

 To our surprise, Zoom really responded very positively to that collaboration and they really put a lot of effort into making, learning about accessibility. Ken, who I call the father of accessibility at Zoom, he traveled a couple of times to us here and we sat down together and we went, we showed him a lot of barriers, problems that we were facing. And then he took it back to his engineers and then we were very pleased to see that we were making, that those issues were fixed one after another. I need to emphasize that as much as we are very pleased with the collaboration with Zoom, we do not endorse Zoom as a solution, because it is not my job, it is not our job. We can only endorse their effort and that they are striving for accessibility and they have demonstrated that they are really looking into that to make their application more accessible. So again, we are not saying that Zoom is 100% accessible. But we know that we are working together to make it happen.

We were able to make accessibility a part of our contract. In the contract, you know, Zoom is promising  to make it WCAG two point accessible and I think Andy will talk later about it and at the same time the issue list that we have are all issues that we find, it is attached to the contract. So any issues that we report, it goes to the issue list and then they are obligated to address those issues. Now, the collaboration that we have with Zoom is really not anything new about our collaboration, for those of you who know us we have been collaborating with various companies or software companies for almost 13, 14 years. You will see a list of many companies that we work successfully and we were able to make the product accessible. The fact is thatwhat I call the reactive approach is that you can just tell the University, you cannot purchase this product because they need that product and there isn't any alternative one. So the best method that we found was or is to engage the company in an accessibility conversation and make accessibility part of the contract and work with them and help them to understand accessibility and help them to resolve it.

So some of the companies that we worked with, almost four major LMS vendors, blackboard, desire to learn, Moodle and canvas and we work with the library of Elsevier and abs go publishing and we also work with Elluminate. Now it was purchased by blackboard. They called  them blackboard collaborate but we work with them before they became part of blackboard. We worked also with Elucian, PeopleSoft and workday. We have been working also with Google, Microsoft and many other companies like service now. And many more.

So while we are doing all this collaboration we, this collaboration will not happen without the active participation of you guys. So if you are interested to work on any of the collaboration that we have here, you are welcome to drop an email to me and then I will connect you with the right team. Hopefully you can become part of the solution and then help these companies to become more accessible.

Specifically about Zoom, I'm interested to see more participants. So Zoom doesn't become just UW specific accessibility solution but also everybody's solution as we have also our strong opinion about accessibility, while we are, you know, following the standard, but there are certain areas that we might have a strong opinion. So if you become part of this collaboration you will have the opportunity to be, as I said, part of the solution.

 My contact information , Or you will find my contact information at the end of the meeting, at the end of the show. In the contact slide. So a couple of points.

When we collaborate with a company we have two measurable short-term goals, which is addressing the, to fix the immediate problem and practically we start with the low hanging fruit and I think we are now in that phase. We are slowly transitioning to long-term solution, which is making sure that accessibility becomes part of the design development and quality testing processes.

Now I would like to pass it to Andy to talk about the Zoom commitment and show the features of Zoom, but before that I would like to ask Jason if you have something to add please.

   Yeah, sure, thanks Hadi. This is Jason Smith and the only thing I really have to add, you covered everything really well is we chose to partner with Internet II to purchase Zoom, and we did that in a very strategic way to be able to partner with other institutions that also purchased Zoom through Internet II. And the Internet II is a really important partnership because it allows us to collaborate with a large group of other institutions who are using Zoom and we all have a shared interest in meeting accessibility requirements. And so it allows us to work together and collaborate much like Hadi is encouraging everyone here to participate if you are interested and I would also encourage you to look into purchasing Zoom through the Internet as a way to join a more formal collaboration around accessibility. So that's all I really have to add.

   Thank you, pass to you Andy? And you might want to share your screen.


[No audio available]

   There we go. Okay can you hear us? Okay. So let me go ahead and share my screen or with Hadi, can you go back to the previous slide? Okay. So... just as an overview of Zoom, so Zoom is a video conferencing, video communications platform and we specialize in video, audio and screen sharing. So as Hadi mentioned, about two years ago the University of Washington  and Ken began an accessibility corporation that began movement within Zoom. So through that Zoom has been committed to providing universal access to products and services on all our platforms which include Windows, Mac OS, iOS and android as well as linux chrome OS and other conferencing systems. So that includes Polycom system, Cisco Systems as well as our Zoom solution that is meant for conference rooms.

Currently at Zoom we are  compliant to the accessibility standards, Zoom is compliant to the accessibility standards and standards such as WCAG 2.0, ARIA 1.1 and Section 508 and on top of that we are striving to provide the best user experience for all of our users especially with accessibility moving forward.

So as mentioned before, two years ago when we started the collaboration we made the commitment to accessibility and we started to build a dedicated team within Zoom to focus on accessibility. And with that, that goes with future, to ensure that our future releases don't introduce new accessibility related issues.

Hadi, can you move to the next... so the general features of Zoom that we provide are, we have audio and video conferencing, we have the ability to join Zoom from your phone or through the computer. So that would be either to dial into the meeting and use the phone audio or to download the Zoom application or through your browser. We have two types of meeting platforms. So the first one is the meeting room which is tend to be more of a collaboration platform. This platform allows all users to be un-muted, share their video and share their screen at any time. The other one which is exactly what we are using right now is a webinar platform which is intended to be more of a broadcast or presentation where there is a group of panelists or a single presenter that is talking to an audience that is just listening. So, similar to classroom setting or a typical webinar broadcast.

So with our screen sharing, the way we send it is as a video stream, since it is the users content, and along with that we allow the user to share their audio. So this is very helpful if a user is sharing a video that they might want to share the audio with that video to the meeting, or if they are sharing a song or some other audio clip as well as the use of screen readers. So if you are using a screen reader, we can pipe that audio through the meeting so that all the participants can hear.

So as the host, the host has a number of controls for the meeting. We have a participant list which lists all the participants of the meeting and the host can navigate to each user and choose to mute them or share the screen or other settings that are similar. We also provide breakout room functionality, which allows you to break out larger meetings into smaller collaborative sessions, which provide the same features as the larger meeting, that allow you to have different discussions within the same meeting.

We also have in meeting chat, which is pretty self explanatory. Instead of talking through your microphone and listening to the speaker you can send messages if you don't want to search  someone or communicate through chat you can do it that way and then we also provide a recording feature, which allows you to save the recording in  MP4 format to your hard drive or  saved to the Zoom cloud where we have additional features such as meeting transcript as well as sharing the recording. We will be providing the recording link that you can send to your participants.

And I think that is the general review of the general features of Zoom. So back to you Hadi and Jason.

   Okay, thank you Andy I appreciate that. Jason told me we have received a few questions and this is the time for the voice of chat. So, Beth would you like to take over and lead the questions that you think are relevant questions please?

   Okay so can you hear me?

   Yes we can

   Texas school for the blind and visually impaired media says that they are curious about your closed captioning. Are you using a cart stream or is someone typing directly into the close caption window. And I can answer that. Someone is typing directly into the close caption window.

Then Darren says on the AAC user and rely heavily on the chat. Is there a way to have chat notifications more pronounced like a sound notification so people would know when there is a new message? I have a Zoom, a ticket for this.

   I can answer but I can also pass to Andy to respond. At this time the chat is being... analyze. It has been become so much that it is becoming too annoying and so they are working with Zoom on customization of chats, text received or chats received. So we can customize it. So at least I know that it works. So far we have tested. Andy, is there something you'd like to add to it?

   Okay yeah. What Hadi mentioned is correct. It should give you notification. I think what was being referred to in this question was just a general notification that there is a new message. As Hadi mentioned they're looking to more  customizations with an all notifications within Zoom so it's more compatible with screen readers as well as general customization for notifications and announcements throughout Zoom.

   Thank you. If you can stay there, do not unmute yourself so Beth next place

   The next one is that Roberta wants you to please discuss pricing.

   I think that is something that you can take it to Zoom. Andy, is this something you can discuss here?

   Yes so we have all the pricing listed on the Feel free to take a look there or after this webinar I think we have a list of our contact information. Feel free to send me or Ken an email and we can direct you to someone who can help you.

   This is Jason, just to add to that, University of Washington is an Internet II consortium member so I would suggest you look into your university, ask if they are a member of the Internet II because you do get pricing for all sorts of technology including Zoom, you do get an educational discount off of the retail price.

   Thank you. Beth?

   Okay the next question is I'm going to jump down to the bottom question only because I have the answer to that. John said he has concerns that the registration uses, for Zoom webinar uses captcha and Zoom responded that Zoom recapture is accessible. I and many others challenge this assertion. Can we at least allow this to be optional? Actually I can't answer. I thought you were referring to the registration form for this particular webinar, and that was done through Google forms. And they keep changing it. And so I keep trying to fix it so we don't have that problem but maybe you are referring to registering through Zoom, so you might have to specify on that one.

   I haven't had, haven't registered for Zoom for a long time. I do not

[Inaudible background voice]

   Jason says that Andy might know

   Yes so for this one we are currently looking into this to figure out what is going on. I think we have started to talk with Google about the re-captcha not functioning as it should with users using a screen reader that cannot check the box. So we are looking into  this one.

   Thank you, Beth if you can hold on to other questions... so we can move on to show some of the accessibility features?

   Well, I think this one question you are going to be answering so just so you know in advance they are wanting to know what types of testing and other customization for accessibility has been done so far and I think that is the whole point of this presentation.

   We are going to answer that.

   We will be answering that. Thank you. So for the next minute please be patient with us because we have to configure my room or my setting here so you can hear some of the JAWS feedback...or... maybe not. Maybe you cannot hear through my speaker here. Is it better when you do that through my speaker.

   Turn it up, yeah.

   Potentially as Andy mentioned that when you do the screen sharing you can also pipe your audio output to the room so anyone can hear you I am hearing the chats that you send so somehow it is distracting me but do not worry. So, let me go to the Zoom room.

[Sound of JAWS screen reader in the background]

   Okay we talked about you can answer that question we have--- for example this is the main landing page before you enter the room. That is the setting we have.

[JAWS reading]

   Okay then let me start with this one, because [inaudible] demo, so here is the toolbar. With the audio setting that I can go and then change my audio settings. And then to change the values. At this time I don't want to change anything for obvious reasons so I press escape to close it. And then I can... this is another thing that I want to play with it is mute/unmute but we have also shortcut keys for some of the commonly used functions. Stop share, the one to do that... and this is an advanced feature I don't want to talk about this one. The mood control. This is an interesting feature that I can pass the control to the other users so they can take over my computer and run it for me. And this is something that we do all the time when we are collaborating with this company to, so they can drive my computer from their end and they can see the feedback that we receive. I need to tell Jason then and Dan to stay quite.


   So Dan stopped by and then he wanted to say something.

[JAWS reading]

   Pause sharing, this is a QA... open participants panel, this is an interesting place that most of us would like some [ability] to interact with

[JAWS reading]

   Okay so

   So, Hadi they are not seeing when you share the participants window.


   Yeah, not seeing it.  Zoom... Windows to start sharing it

   There you go

   Now we can see it

   I'm glad that somebody mentioned that

[JAWS reading]

   It is working now.


   Sorry about that.

[JAWS reading]

   So, here you see that I am just arrowing down on the list of participants. And for example if I need to see what functions are available I press the and see the options here. Did it work?

[JAWS reading]

  ... maybe it is not available at this point, but... I have usually... I usually use the standard meeting room. I'm not really familiar with the webinar interface, but when we are in the standard room when I press enter on any of these names I get options to chat or...

   It is because you are sharing your screen. You are sharing, yes it is because you are sharing your screen so you are in a different view than normal.

   So again, Jason is telling me unfortunately in this mode I won't be able to show them. So, what else

[JAWS reading]

  ... I even see that here three [open] questions. Do you want... I want to give it remote control.

[JAWS reading]

   So Ken, pass it to you I'm never done that but I'm passing my control to Dan

   I don't want it


  ... I don't want to control your computer.

[JAWS reading]

   Andy can I send it to?


   I am passing to you so can you drive it from there?

   So as you can see, I am able to switch to the cloud point. I can choose the video options, and go back and forth through the slides. WHoops... so, basically I am able to use my mouse to navigate or use my keyboard and anything I send will be sent to Hadi's computer.

   That's good it really was an interest action, we tried to do it, during the live webinar and not [during these] service is very critical. For those of you who have, or a screen reader user, you know how critical some of these actions could be in a live session. But one of the things that I presume with Zoom is that it is very stable. I don't personally remember that Zoom has ever crashed my computer before or crashed my screen reader because of all the activities we are doing here. Okay.

   Looks like you minimized the PowerPoint.


   There you go. Now you are on the first slide.

   Nice. That is the beauty of Outlook.  [Inaudible] office and the PowerPoint, when you leave the session or detach or go switch the window and you come back you are no longer in presentation mode. Okay here are some of the features that I think we can talk about, we have the meeting toolbar, the meeting control toolbar that is usually by default [inaudible] is it... on the bottom of the screen. By default. Mouse users, they can make it visible by hovering the mouse toward the edge of the lower bottom of the window. That was a really critical problem because without that control, without the keyboard user would not be able to do it. So that is one of the very first issues that  we addressed and they talked about with Zoom and they made it accessible. When you are setting up your Zoom, I believe it was our request that it will ask you, do you want to make the toolbar visible, yes or no. So then if you are a mouse user probably you do not want, but if you are a keyboard user you want to make it always visible. You can always change the setting in the accessibility settings too.

   Yes and this is a Jason. I will just add that the toolbar was actually a pretty big problem when we first started testing Zoom because you couldn't control any of the meeting settings without accessing the toolbar. You had to have her over the window with your mouse in order to see the toolbar. So when we brought this up as a priority one issue with Zoom, they relatively quickly fixed that and added an option to make the toolbar sticky.

[JAWS reading]

   Okay so notification as I said many actions, not all, many actions we have that we see on Zoom, they are audibly announced. So for example of some of the joins the room, if somebody leaves the room. If screen sharing is enabled or disabled or the chat.  at the beginning it was great but when you have a big room like this, then it can become quite annoying. Because you hear a reaction of what it is doing, so Zoom is planning to customize it and then I would like to ask Ken or Andy to give us an update on that. Where are we as far as that plan goes?

   Yeah, so this goes along with kind of the notifications customization as well as the shortcut keys, similar type of feature. Currently  we are working on a redesign for our reading client and hoping to get some of these features once we...

   Thank you. The same thing with the shortcut keys, and Ken or Andy or Jason can take you to the settings and show you, we have specific accessibility settings and then in the settings we have also a shortcut key option. So at this time we have predesignated shortcut keys for commonly used functions, but there is also plan, actually I had the conversation just yesterday with Ken. They were saying yesterday it seems they are escalating that and hopefully it will be addressed soon. So, when they do that practically any user can customize which shortcut, which shortcut key should be used for what event or function.

So, F6, that is another feedback we provided to them. Those of you who are familiar with office products, you know that you can use F6 key to move between different panes within the application. Occasionally we have multiple panes in Zoom in order to make an effective navigation between the panes, we suggested to adopt this office idea for navigating these panes and they have done that, which makes the navigation significantly more effective.

The reasonable focus indicator. I can't say anything about it but I really and you guys to determine that. But I am being told by everyone that they have now reasonable focus indicator when you tab through the application. Accessibility support. We have been testing this officially, formerly here on Windows and Mac but I'm also using Zoom on android and iOS. I can use it. I have not done complete testing but at least selected function that I use that were accessible.

[JAWS reading]

   Closed captioning, I would like to pass it to Jason or Andy to talk about it. Because this is a little outside my expertise.

   Yeah this is Jason. I will actually just say a few words and then I'd like Andy or Ken to talk more about the work we have done on captioning and what Zoom offers in terms of captioning. But when we first started our collaboration with Zoom, there was only one option to be able to caption and that was a closed caption window that and assigned closed caption provider would join the meeting and then just type into it, with no sort of streaming of text available. But since then, they have improved that option and now they offer streaming text. And so someone can use a stenographic machine to more quickly deliver the message. I don't know what technology, or what type of machine our current captioner is using and I don't think they can answer any questions. I see a lot of questions in the chat, asking our captioner what technology they are using and I don't think they can answer those right now. Their hands are a little busy.


   But we would be happy to follow up and get more information from the captioner as to what technology they are using. But that is where I will stop and pass it to Andy. Do you want to cover anything I did not cover?

   Yeah, so Jason covered it pretty well. On top of that we are looking to improve the captions. I saw a lot of chat messages and Q and a regarding this. But what we would like to do is make that more fluid so that more of the captions are showing at a time, as well as making it more real time as possible. So those improvements are being worked on and we are trying to figure out the best way to implement that. As mentioned we support the captioner joining the meeting and using the keyboard or stenographic machine. We also support third-party closed captioning. So with cart software or other software, they can configure that to pipe the captions directly into the meeting as well.

   Yeah, and Andy, we are getting a lot of, a few people mentioning that the captions are kind of showing too quickly. And you can see that here. And I noticed that myself. But what I did was just expand the caption window by hovering over the caption window and hitting the up arrow and it made it bigger and now I can, it is a little bit easier to read although it does cover up the PowerPoint slides so it would be nice if you could move, if this were a separate window and you could move the caption window around, so that it doesn't, in case  it is blocking the PowerPoint text.and then like you mention another improvement could behaving the text show up a little bit smoother. That I don't know. It could be the way that the current captioner is typing, inputting the text into this meeting. If they are just using the kind of older way, which is just using a keyboard and typing it in, or if they are using a stenographic machine. I'm not sure. But we look forward to continuing to work with Zoom on making improvements like this.

   I was planning to show you also other features like invite somebody to a meeting. And a few other options that are not available in the webinar mode. But maybe, Andy, can you talk about the invite option that... how we can invite... somebody to a meeting?

   Yeah, so in the regular meeting platform, the reading why it's not in the webinar platform is because there is a registration option where the host wants to be able to capture each participant so they want control over who is invited to the meeting and this is a webinar. But for the meeting we have an invite button that allows any participant in the meeting to click the button and then you will have the option to invite any other contacts on Zoom and call them directly or copy the invitation or import the invitation into your calendar system. So that you can invite other users.

   And then the invite information, the room information are sent to the person via email. How about Andy, about using PMI and non-PMI room?

   Yeah. So in regard to setting up your meetings we have several options. So there is an option which Hadi just mentioned to use your PMI, which stands for personal meeting ID. This is a dedicated meeting ID that is always live for you so you can start it any time so it could be an ad hoc meeting if you want to give someone your ID to join and just set up a meeting on the fly you can give them that number. You can customize the number. Most people choose their phone number so that it's easy to remember. So there is that option. Or you can schedule a dedicated meeting that will use a different meeting ID through our web portal, through the client. Or through our extensions that allow you to set up a one time meeting and invite only who you want to join the meeting. So that is more useful if you're only having a one time meeting versus someone who you meet with regularly.

   Thank you. Another accessibility feature that I would like to highlight is that you can save the chat and you can copy the information or even click on the interactive elements in the chat and then I think with this, I think another point was Andy mentioned that we have not enabled that feature for this webinar, but it is very possible that Norm will decide to use also telephone function to join the webinar. So you will get a number and then conference ID and everybody can, who is not at a computer can use a telephone to join that and be able to communicate with any of the participants.

 So with this I guess you are getting Closer to the QA session. Before I ask Beth to become the voice of chat again I was wondering between you guys if there is anything you would like to mention or even Dan from the other room?

   This is Jason again. I'm just reading the chat. People are sending us a lot of messages and feedback on various things, captioning and... Navigation and things like that. So thank you for your feedback and the two people from Zoom that are in this meeting right now, Andy and Ken are the main people at Zoom who are working on this stuff and their teams. So I appreciate the feedback, and we are going to take back this information and document it and test it on our end because we do have staff here at the University of Washington that test and document any issues and future requests that we can work with Zoom to make those happen, so and I would encourage you to not just share your feedback here, but get involved with Internet II, join the group and share your findings through that channel, because it will get higher up on the food chain if you will to get things done.

   That's great. Voice of chat, please.

   Voice of Q and A. As I said... as has been mentioned there's been a lot about the closed captioning. And so one of the comments was I believe that when you close the Zoom client if you have used the closed caption there's a text file automatically saved to your desktop and is this part of the EULA and I know that it's one of the choices in the settings but somebody can answer that?

   I will let Andy... but from what I understand yes, that is correct. When you choose to have a live captionist like we are doing today, when you are done, I don't know if participants will get this, or if it is just the hosts, will get a text file with the entire transcript, including timestamps. So that is available. And we are also recording to the cloud. And what  is cool, what is cool is that it will include the captioning on the cloud as well so in the Zoom account is we can go in and when we share the recording out, captioning will be included in the recording and it is just a toggle where you can turn it on and off and it is just a, captioning overlay over the video. So they also offer, if you record to the cloud and you don't have a live captioner during your session, Zoom cloud will do its best effort using artificial intelligence to caption the video. Of course we all know that when a computer tries to caption spoken English, or any other language, it doesn't always get it right, so what you can do is go in after the recording and pretty easily edit what the computer got wrong. So it's actually pretty easy to edit and change and it's not perfect. But an alternative to a professional captioner.

   Thank you. Andy?

   So Jason covered that pretty well. As far as the captions go, it should only save to the computer if you either click that button or if you already have, so if you have logged into Zoom before there is an option to always save the meeting text so you can turn that on and it always saves the chat as well as any close caption text that was in the meeting as well.

   Yet it looks like Dennis in Vancouver  asked if there's options to export the caption file and I think you can do that if you are the host of the meeting you can download the SRT file of the caption and put it up in something else, right Andy?

   Right. So we could provide a VTT file that they could either--- in the website or use with any video media software.

   Okay thank you. Next question, Beth?

   Okay I'm trying to Do the Q&A and try to toggle the text box. I will say  that Andy Downing who is blind in Australia said he had major problems with the captions. He turned them on out of interest and it stopped the screen reader from accessing other controls and it took a lot of effort to turn them off and he also doesn't like the alert every time a new caption comes in, unnecessary verbosity. And I will add one other thing that well, go on... you can answer that one.

   I think I will answer the second part, which is that we don't like everything that comes to the chat or the caption to be announced. This will be part of hopefully the new design. So then the user will be able to customize the audible notification. But I do not know about the first part.


   Oh, sorry

  ... so as for the first part, if you turn it on, it should be able to click the option again and it shouldn't notify you again. So if you click the closed caption on the toolbar again, it should just remove the captions until you click that again. So I'm not sure what's going on there.

   This is all reason to be part of this collaboration. So you can report it. Because we have limited resources and we have really exhausted our resources. So we appreciate new... energy. And the resources, please consider to join the group and report those issues. Through this collaboration you will have direct access to all the people who are working on Zoom.

   I think Andrew's point was that because he's using the screen reader, he said that it stopped his screen reader from accessing other controls, so he was unable to click to turn it off.

   That is something that we cannot, you know, we haven't done that. We have not done the testing, so

   He's letting us know.

  ... so to answer, we do not know that until he reports formally and we can pass it to Zoom, or he can do it directly.

   Okay and then I have, Sean said with the current focus indicator it's hard to find which windowpane I'm on. With the customization of the focus indicator can something to be done to indicate which pane the user is on?

   I'm completely outside my.. [Laughter]... my expertise.

   Yes, so for this one we will have to investigate. It will really depend on... we need to get more information on if you are using Mac, PC or what kind of device, as well to see what the specific issue is with the focus indicator but if there's definitely an issue there we want to investigate and improve that.

   And Ken says he's not seeing the more but we are referring to. He has few options at the top of the page that this could be used to return from full-screen... oh my got it disappeared.

   Sorry, that was Jason. I was just typing in my answer, but the answer is you will not see the more button as a participant of this webinar. You have to actually be the host to see more options. So that is why you are not seeing the more button, John.


   Sorry about that.

   Nolan makes a point that an excellent resource if you want to use Zoom is a tutorial from Mosen consulting. And the website is HTTPS:// Thank you very much for that one Nolan and the second one is how to the vendors work with you to demonstrate their fixes on---

   I think the question is for me.


   Right? [Laughter]

   So I think the... that is the way that if companies like Microsoft, frequently they come here and then we sit at the same table and we look together. We never evaluate the application without somebody from the company being present or sitting with us because we do not want for any minute that we spend, we would like that we use that time as a teaching moment. So they need to be with us either in person or via Zoom, to see the experience. And then this is the best way. And sometimes you have seen it earlier. I passed the control to the company, those people on the other side and I give them a simple task to do it, and that is how we evaluate or identify the problem or show them. And then after that, this is the discussion how to address the issues.

   This is Jason, just adding to that, we also keep a very detailed spreadsheet with lists of problems and lots of other information and Zoom collaborates with us on the spreadsheet to update things as they get fixed and stuff like that. So we have tools that we use to collaborate with. But it is 11:01 AM... or 12:01 PM now. So.

   So it is 12:01 PM. I know that Norm usually ends the meeting shortly after the top of they are. I will leave it up to you, Norm and Beth, if you want to go more with the questions, or... close it formally and continue

   Actually I really only have a couple comments that I think a few people would like to know. Sean says that the remote control feature has enabled him to look at software that he could not get permission to install on his computer and he says it is great. So that is a good point. But then the Texas school for the blind says they have had a good jaws and an BDA focus in Zoom except for the polls pain, none of the results I read in the poll window or result window so I'm going to make Norm unmuted if you want to say anything he can.

   Thank you everybody, what a great job the panel did. Thank you everyone. Great job. If you want to put up the slide with your.. Information with y for contacting you on it you better put it up now because a lot of people have to leave and I know Beth has to leave too so this was really [inaudible] we learned a lot and I think we realize there is a lot more to learn but it is a good start. I thank you for helping Beth and me get our feet wet and we will be back here with some webinars in October and later. So you can go to EASI's homepage, click on webinar and you will see the webinars that are coming up. When the recording of this is available I will have it at the very top of the homepage so thank you everyone have a good day.

   Thank you also from our end. Thank you also to the Zoom friends and colleagues have have been working with us for over two years  on these issues and they are also my colleagues here --Jason and also my students who have even done internships that Zoom and have helped them to address many issues. It was, thank you for the opportunity.

  ... share your contact information?

   Contact information... mine or dan's? Or we can go to that slide. This is the last slide.


   Okay. That is the contact, our contact information. Contact, as I always say my colleague Dan for any questions you have. But we would be glad to hear from you back and hopefully some of you will decide to join the collaboration. Thank you everyone again for coming to this meeting.

   Someone specifically asked if we are

   My communication is Hadi Rangin and the email is but if you can write down Dan's email it is easier

   I think I got all of the contacts put into the chat box for everyone. Also Jason if you could email Norm the copy of the recording from the cloud, I don't know maybe I can access it myself because I did it to the computer just so I could compare the two. I'd appreciate it.


   Thanks again everyone. Thanks again Ken and Andy and Norm and everybody talk to you next.

   And Beth as usual did a great job.